Kaplan Community Podcast
Listen for free to the personal stories of alumni from Kaplan Business School. Join host Kieran Howard, as we share stories about life as a student, life after graduation, future plans, and staying connected. Get involved with us on our KBS Alumni LinkedIn group at https://www.linkedin.com/groups/6567849/, and with Kaplan Business School at www.kbs.edu.au.
Kaplan Community Podcast
S2 E6 Vanessa Stafford and teaching & learning
Vanessa Stafford is the Academic Learning Manager in Kaplan Business School. Listen to Vanessa highlight excellence in teaching and the future of learning.
In PART ONE, Vanessa discusses her passion for developing excellence in teaching. A challenge conquered in KBS is the transition from classroom to online teaching. The next big challenge is Education 4.0 with the use of gamification, and virtual reality.
Read more about Education 4.0 in The World Economic Forum's New Economy and Society Platform.
In PART TWO, Vanessa explores Education 4.0, the future world of education. Still emerging are the technology-enhancement of learning experiences in schools of the future. Listen as Vanessa discusses how KBS is currently using gamification and virtual reality to motivate learners, and help graduates prepare for job interviews.
TIMELINE
00:39 PART ONE Academic Learning Manager role
02:44 Excellence in teaching
05:11 Transitioning from classroom to online teaching
06:52 Future of online learning
10:17 PART TWO What does the future look like?
12:42 Research new highs with learning science
16:16 Culturally relevant learning
18:36 World of Education 4.0
22:34 Gamification plus virtual reality
27:24 Wrap-up
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The Kaplan Community podcast is a platform
for the wider Kaplan community
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to share ideas and insights
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that can guide us on our professional
and academic development.
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It's easy to listen
to tackle some hard hitting issues,
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and we think it's a great way
to appreciate diverse perspectives on life
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learning and careers. Hi,
I'm Vanessa Stafford.
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I'm the academic learning manager
at Kaplan Business School.
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Today, we're lucky enough to have
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Vanessa Stafford as our guest
on the Kaplan Community podcast.
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Thanks for coming, Vanessa.
Thank you for having me.
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As academic learning manager,
you have a pretty wide ranging impact.
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And I know that before work from home,
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we were nearby desk buddies.
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So I actually got to over here
and learn little bits of what you do.
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But it's wide ranging
and in my mind, quite exciting.
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Could you explain for us
what it is you do? Yes.
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So essentially I was employed at CBIA
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six years ago to fill a position
that that wasn't there.
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And it's I think in a nutshell,
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assisting our lecturers
to be better at at teaching.
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You know, ultimately.
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So I deal with the
professional development.
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I give them a space on my
cabeus where they can learn
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their craft. There's
also but lots of events that I do.
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And they can come along to those
so they can watch videos.
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So there's that sort of asynchronous
learning space that I provide for them.
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And then I I'm so lucky to be able
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to just spend my weight
having zom meetings
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with lecturers who say, you know,
I've got a problem, can you solve it?
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And we have an hour chat by the end of it.
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We've had fun and
we've solved the problem.
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And that is just so rewarding.
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So I really love the
the aspect of being able to use
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all of my teaching career and really help
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new lecturers, especially those
who have come from the industry.
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So they're really fantastic
at the content that they're teaching.
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You know, they they really knowledgeable
about the content, but
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maybe they're quite grainge
with the science of teaching.
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So I love that about my job.
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So I really just help lecturers.
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I like to call them teachers
because we're not lecturing.
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We're teaching. So a couple of days
from now on. Yeah.
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So I really am passionate about
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spreading my passion for teaching
to our teaching staff and really trying
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to get them as excited as I am
about how best to teach our students.
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And so I was one of those persons
who came in from industry
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and had a big passion for teaching.
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And somebody had to teach me
to be a better teacher.
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I'm proud to be a teacher.
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So rather than be called a lecturer,
I'm I'm proud of what I do is teaching.
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But you've mentioned that
you teach all day.
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You teach teachers
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how to be better teachers
and deal with their problems. Are they?
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What's the main problem
that most lecturers seem to have
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when they're trying to learn
how to be a good teacher?
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Well, I'm not sure
if you've noticed, Richard, but recently
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we've had this thing called COVID 19,
and it may get noticed. Sorry.
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It means that whereas maybe my brand
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was a little bit low in 2019,
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I maybe had one or two lectures
coming to voluntary sessions.
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All of a sudden,
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I became the only person
in the organization
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that could teach people
how to teach by Zunz.
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And I'm not saying
that Koven 19 is a good thing,
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but I am saying that
there has been a positive flow
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on effects to my job and being able
to teach more people what I know.
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So I studied a master's of learning
sciences and technology
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because, you know, to say
the future is a blend of synchronous
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and asynchronous learning is just silly
because it's actually the present. Right.
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And it was the present
even before Covid hit.
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But having everyone forced into online
teaching and learning,
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really, for people like me
who love online teaching and learning,
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I'm really happy that it has been given
the status that I think it deserves,
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because, you know,
I think the classroom teaching is amazing.
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I love it. I do miss it.
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But it's not an either or.
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So her being a classroom teacher,
you can't you can't in the long run
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think be just a classroom teacher.
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You need to also know
how to teach online as well.
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And so the biggest problem
that I'm solving, I think, is
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just that transition for teachers,
those who have only talk face to face,
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and now not only have to deal
with technology, but just the philosophy
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of being an online teacher
and the lack of control
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that a teacher has now over the classroom
when at any point your student can turn.
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A camera off and put their mute button on
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and leave the room
and you have no control over that.
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So I've actually been really proud
to be able to help those teachers
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who were struggling with that transition
of those expectations
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of classroom behavior
like face to face, classroom behavior
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being taken into the online space ,
which you just cannot do.
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Like online teaching is not
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just an extension of classroom teaching,
it's a completely different beast.
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So that's been the
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the most challenging thing
for our for our teachers to
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overcome. And I'm not saying that everyone
is going to turn into the best
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online teacher and never want to go back
to the classroom .
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That's not going to happen.
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But I hope that just throughout
those little interactions with me
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over the last year and a half,
they at least have had a problem solved.
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So I've got a problem and
I don't want it to happen again next week.
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So my first priority is
let's solve that problem.
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But on a wider macro level,
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I want to impart a love of online
teaching in them.
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I'd say actually online learning,
although it's been around for actually
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decades, it's been pretty underdeveloped
in the education industry.
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And over the last,
as you said, since Covid,
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it's accelerated and even been forced
upon the world. Right.
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Even primary school kids,
when we transition to online learning.
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I was a lecturer
and I remember getting your email,
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and I can say firsthand
you made a huge impact.
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Besides these problems we've talked about,
though, I'm interested in your ideas on
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what the future looks like,
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because I think it's a trend
that's going to only increase.
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Yeah, it looks really exciting to me,
actually, but there's challenges ahead.
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So, for example, if I was to start
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an entire new school from scratch
and design an entire curriculum,
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then I would be utilizing 4.0 technology.
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So just to expand on that, so
we've got Education 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 and 4.0.
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And currently we are sitting around
a blend of 2.0 and three point.
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What that means is
2.0 is still quite teacher focused.
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It's a teacher centered
Model 3.0 education.
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I'm proud to say it can be
a we're doing mostly.
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And that's really thinking about learning
and socially constructed.
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It utilizes technology not as much as
point out, but it does utilize technology.
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I mean, we had my cabeus, for example.
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So that has asynchronous
learning embedded in it.
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3.0 is you know, teaching
is done by everyone, not just the teacher.
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And that's the the opposite
of the lecture model, for example.
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So that's why I don't like to call
our teachers lectures, because that's 2.0.
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And also the point of 3.0 education is
and I think this is what I'm
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very happy that Cabeus focuses
on, is we're creating
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communicative and effective coworkers
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and really like entrepreneurs, people
who can think now 2.0 education
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is not really set
up to allow students to think.
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So that's why I like
where we are at the moment
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in the world, really,
that social constructivism
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peers learning from his,
questioning the teacher.
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You know, sometimes
jumping onto the Internet
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to find additional resources
and bring a little bit more
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freedom of where you can learn
and who you can learn from.
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But what I'm super excited about is 4.0.
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And that's really building
in autonomy choice,
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like the motivation
to learn lots of asynchronous learning.
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It's kind of flipped learning.
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I don't know whether you've heard the
phrase flipped learning when students do
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you know a bulk of work
before the class asynchronously
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and then in a live environment,
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they're more prepared
to do more social constructivism.
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So sort of flics learning boosted
the elements of gamification,
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really designing,
learning to be fun through gamification.
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And most importantly,
I think if we're following the end
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of the fourth industrial revolution
is inquiry based learning.
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So saying that the teacher
is not the person in the class
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with all the information.
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And in fact, we're talking about 3.0.
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Social Constructivism
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is learning from peers
that that's also not the source of truth,
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but going out and using technology
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and using data to learn from
and then bringing that back to your peers
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and your teacher .
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So I'm really excited about 4.0
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education, giving technology,
the respect that I think it deserves
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in really creating a smart,
blended learning model.
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Fidencio, the world of Education 4.0,
with that autonomy, the gamification
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and just use of technology
in general to me excites me as well.
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But I'm really curious.
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The structure of schools nowadays,
whether it's secondary
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school or university and postoji
postgraduate education
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is really based on compliance regulation
and meeting a curriculum objective.
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So in 4.0, what is the future school
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look like and what is the role
of the teacher in 4.0?
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I don't know the answer
to that perfectly just yet,
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but what we don't really need to do,
I sit on the task like task,
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but I'm going to tell you what
I think it means.
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It's I think it means
that we need to be much
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more flexible in how we assess.
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And I'll just give you a really tiny, tiny
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snippet of of of
how I'm going through this at the moment.
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It's giving the choice of learning
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over to the student more than saying,
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I have these twenty five things
written down and I
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want the students to achieve that
for the end of the 12 weeks.
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That's a really easy way
to write a syllabus.
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But it's not the future,
because when you go into the workplace,
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no one gives you that
perfect little checkbox.
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Problems are messy and you need to
solve them by collaborating with people,
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finding information
on the Internet yourself,
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synthesizing all of that information
and making a judgment call.
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So that is inherently messy.
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So what does the future look like?
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It means that people like us
who are designing rubrics.
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We have to fight for what we believe in.
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And if someone is wanting you
to tick a box that you know, that
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that is not the best way
that a student will learn.
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We just have to keep
fighting against that.
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I'm still getting my head
and learning science,
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and I'm really interested in the future
that you're talking about.
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I'm interested if it's more focused on
what and medical philosophy
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might be called the subnormal
or supernormal development.
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So in the history of psychology
has been built around studying depression
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rather than happiness and bringing people
to a normal environment .
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So if we look at learning,
are we more focused on
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bringing people who have less optimal
experiences to a good learning outcome,
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or is it to bring teaching and learning
above what we would consider
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a normal standard
like, say, Montessori program development?
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Well, that's a fascinating
question, Kiran,
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and I think that touches on
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my love of student centered learning and.
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The scaffolding,
I mean, scaffolding is a term
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that every teacher and learning
scientist has used a bazillion times.
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But what it what it means
is, yes, we're saying
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that every learner has their own goal.
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And, you know, if we just take it
to a really rudimentary example
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of, you know, Kabia
students, is their goal to get a Ph.D.
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or is their goal to get a pass?
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OK, just a goal.
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But now, what's their capabilities?
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What do they say?
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What's in their toolkit
when they come to class?
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You don't know what's in a student's
toolkit unless you ask them.
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So student centered
learning is really all about
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finding out the reasons
why your student is studying.
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Finding out what is in their toolkit.
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Do they have learning challenges?
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Do they have social challenges?
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And then how do they
interact with the goal?
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So do I have a student
who is really challenged in some way,
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so maybe a divergent thinker,
but they still want to get an HD.
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And they get an HD.
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They're trying to get an HD in a syllabus
that has not been designed
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with accessibility
or diversity and inclusion in mind.
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OK, so that's that's
what I'm fascinated with.
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That is a cocktail of stress.
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If we don't design education for everybody
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and for everybody's individual goals
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now, is that really difficult
to do or courses?
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But we have to do it.
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Vanessa, you mentioned the word
a neuro diversion student,
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and that really piqued my interest,
that's that's fascinating.
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So my question, we talked about capability
and 4.0 and student
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centered learning,
and not all students are exactly the same.
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They have different
motivations, et cetera.
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So if I'm neuro divergent,
that has that capability
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differ from the typical student.
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When I think of my history of ESL
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teaching, I have had,
you know, 12 years of classroom
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teaching of students
who are learning a second language.
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So there's that right.
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There's that initial challenge
that they are trying
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to communicate in a different language,
but they're also trying to communicate
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in a different language
as a particular and unique learner.
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So one person could get your point
immediately, you know, that that's the way
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they think you've taught them present,
perfect tense and they just get it.
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But then you might have someone else.
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They are slower at thinking.
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And it's fascinating to me.
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And it has led me to believe
that every single person
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responds differently to the education
that you're giving them.
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And I find that a really
beautiful challenge.
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Well, I guess since we were talking
about different learning styles
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and Richard has brought this up,
something that's really relevant to Kalpen
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business school would be
culturally relevant, learning
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whether it's east and west or even
just using colloquial in the classroom.
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What's your take on how to include
cultural relevance in study?
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I'm so glad you asked this question,
because I will tell you
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a very quick story.
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When I first arrived at Cabeus,
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I was quite shocked
by how many case studies in our slides
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were just use standard, you know, Google's
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and what your white male
entrepreneurs, of course.
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Then I looked more closely
and I realized we had quite a diverse
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teaching staff, culturally diverse
teaching staff to begin with.
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But then, of course,
we had 97 percent international students,
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and still every case
study was based on an American company.
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So it's hard to.
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It takes time and it takes effort
to design a curriculum
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for a culturally diverse classroom
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simply because of the practicality
of finding your content
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that is not Eurocentric.
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If you are teaching a culturally diverse
group of people,
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then it is imperative
that you respect that.
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And you take longer in your search
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to find the resources
that are culturally appropriate to them.
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But just tying into the conversation
about 4.0 education
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is that maybe we will come a time, though
there will come a time
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where we're not providing
100 percent of that content.
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So the pressure on us
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to say this is all you need to know
and making sure you take
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all of those boxes of JENDA ability,
culture, sexuality,
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that doesn't have to be on the curriculum
right shoulders anymore,
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because you can devise curriculum
that allows the student to go out
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and find the data that's relevant
to them as well and bring it back.
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And so this is really fascinating
because I'm tying
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it back to what you just said
about cultural relevance. And I agree.
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And then it occurred to me the question
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this inquiry based
learning is so important.
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And I do love this quote
from Nelson Mandela that says
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Education is the most powerful weapon
which you can use to change the world.
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So what I would like to know is what has
changed your world and education, Venessa?
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What podcast? Books, movies?
What do you listen to?
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What do you read that you could recommend
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to other teachers
to rise to the 4.0 standard?
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00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:02,160
Yeah, I love the teaching
in Higher Ed podcast.
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It's Bible Belt called Bonnies to Hovick.
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00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,160
She is inspirational.
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So she is a professor at.
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00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,680
I'm going to get
the University in America now.
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00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:19,080
And she teaches a range of subjects,
mostly around business, I believe.
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00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,520
But her podcast,
when I stumbled across it,
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the one word I can use
to describe it is inclusive.
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So even though every
episode is talking about,
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you know, maybe a challenge
in the teaching and learning speed
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and how to solve that challenge,
it always has an element of being student
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centered and has an element of self
care for practitioners.
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00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:49,960
So it's never judgmental.
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She always is honest.
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00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:56,080
And she says, I'm giving you this advice,
but I actually don't follow it
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00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,600
half the time, because advice
is what we strive for.
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00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,000
Sometimes that isn't actually
what happens in the classroom.
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00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,360
So she's really open and honest.
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00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:09,000
She's a flawed educator
because we're all flawed humans.
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And I just I honestly can't say enough
how much I love this.
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00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:15,200
So that's that's teaching.
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00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:20,720
In high end, I recommend any teacher
who has just started or has been doing it
325
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,120
for twenty five years,
like I have to listen to her.
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00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:29,640
The other one I love is a YouTube
channel called Cult of Pedagogy.
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00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:35,080
And this is another American woman
who just does really simple,
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00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:39,040
effective short clips on pedagogy.
329
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,600
So how do you do a thing to push it?
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00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,080
How do you deal with certain
quiet behaviors in the classroom?
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00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:47,480
Well, whatever you can think of,
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00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,600
what if a tiny little pedagogical issue
you might have in the classroom?
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00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,360
I guarantee she has a short
YouTube clip to help you.
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00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,480
And can I just tell you why I love
335
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,200
finding a really good YouTube
channel to follow?
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Because we are busy.
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00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:06,840
Everyone is busy.
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00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,400
And if you say to someone who wants to be
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a teacher, who all who wants to be
a better teacher,
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00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,160
go into a three year degree or go and do,
you know, supplement
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00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,760
what you've got with
with a one year course?
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00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:23,000
Well, that's just unrealistic
for so many practitioners.
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00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:29,200
But if I can say, hey, go and watch
two videos a week just to solve one
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tiny problem as you go,
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then that is what makes
a great practitioner. I think
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the final one, I will say,
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00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:43,840
and that does tie in to having a busy
life is Coursera.
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I'm currently studying, again,
the situation both with them now.
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I love it. I love being able to say that
in twenty twenty,
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I'm going to learn three new practical
things that I can help myself
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00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,680
with in my teaching,
but also cabeus lecturer's ways.
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00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,640
So I'm just going to take two months
and I'm going to do a self-paced
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00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,120
online course and take off and apply
what you've learned.
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I really love that.
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Learn, applied, learn, apply.
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00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,880
So then I tried teaching in higher
Ed Culter pedagogy and Coursera courses.
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00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,720
I think that's really great
sort of collection that gives people a lot
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to work on, actually.
359
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,640
But I can recommend Coursera as well.
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00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:32,480
And now that you say gamification, because
I find that really, really interesting.
361
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,080
And my wife works on that as well.
362
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:40,120
I'd be interested in your take
on gamification and virtual reality.
363
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:46,000
KB's has started integrating some virtual
reality into its careers program.
364
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,440
It's kind of an interesting way
that they do it.
365
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,040
They actually prepare people
for office situations through VR.
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00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,800
Which do you think might be more
easily incorporated
367
00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:01,160
into the classroom in the next five years,
let's say virtual reality?
368
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,120
Oh, don't get me started.
That is so exciting.
369
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,640
I don't have a headset at home
because I think that
370
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,120
that would take me down a rabbit warren.
371
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,720
Oh, especially during Covid.
I would be traveling the world,
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my VR headset and my lounger
and not do any work.
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00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,880
And you know, when you talk about VR,
we're talking about immersive learning.
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00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:25,920
But if we link that to gamification,
gamification is,
375
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,600
I think, easier to implement
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00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:35,400
because it's possibly just a broader
range of activities that you can use.
377
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:41,640
Gamification began in 1980
with a man in the UK
378
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,400
who was tasked with taking a very boring,
379
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,040
static chat room and game of following it
380
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,640
to make it more exciting and
and motivational.
381
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,960
And he essentially designed
the first gamification
382
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:02,280
using game design elements for a reason
other than having fun.
383
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,400
You know, so these students were
having fun because they kind of became
384
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:11,920
avatars and they were in a virtual world
rather than just typing in a chat room.
385
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:18,400
The idea that you are immersed in learning
because you are within it,
386
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,360
that's super cool about VR,
but it can easily be achieved.
387
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:26,800
So gamification as well.
I mean, especially if we're talking about.
388
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,720
Just including an avatar in a scenario,
389
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,880
I personally believe that VR is going
to get a lot more attention simply
390
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,880
because it's I don't know, it's sexier
and it gets a lot of investment
391
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:42,280
already through through gaming
and other parts of the industry.
392
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:47,360
But of course, combining the two,
I mean, all you need to do with your VR
393
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,480
is add a few gaming elements
of of a leaderboard.
394
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:57,560
Some like some badges, some motivational
tools to get students learning.
395
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,200
And then you combine the two.
396
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,200
I have found this very interesting
and learned quite a lot.
397
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,960
I've worked in a few different areas
of the education industry,
398
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,120
and I think education is very, very broad.
399
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,040
I always like to bring it back to careers.
400
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,720
So you have an incredibly
interesting career path.
401
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:17,560
You started out as a teacher.
402
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,880
And how would somebody follow a career
path like yours?
403
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,200
How could somebody do what you do
if they're interested?
404
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,360
What would it be?
405
00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:28,160
Becoming a teacher first
or what are the steps, do you think?
406
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,560
So actually, Kiran, I'm going to go back
407
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,640
even further, because I didn't
start out in education.
408
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,880
I started out trying to be a rock star.
409
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:45,920
And clearly, I failed at 30.
410
00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:52,160
I then went to university and started my
my teaching career from that.
411
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,440
So went into English
as a second language learning.
412
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,040
And did that for 10 years.
413
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,240
So I just wanted to to say that to people
414
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:05,520
who on a on a journey of education
and choosing their careers, the
415
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:11,800
everything you do is the right thing to do
because there is no one way.
416
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,440
The fact that I was able
to go to university as a 30 year old
417
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,200
meant that I did
much better at university.
418
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,160
I know that. I know that for a fact,
I would not have been focused
419
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:27,560
enough at 20. But the best thing I ever
did was pursue a master's and not just
420
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:33,320
because it got me into trouble
in business school, but it just expanded
421
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,320
my horizons even more.
422
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:41,640
So doing that master's certainly gave me
a new career field.
423
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:47,200
But it also gave me the self-worth
that I was after,
424
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,920
was able to say, yes, all of
the information that I have in my head.
425
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:56,160
Yes, it's actually worth a piece of paper
and it's worth the highest salary
426
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,400
that you get because
of that piece of paper
427
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,840
if you choose the path
of being an educator.
428
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,680
I personally think that comes
with extreme responsibility
429
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,400
to be the best one
that you can be in my job.
430
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:14,040
That's what I love about my job,
helping lecturers to find that passion
431
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,760
and find that empathy and move away from
432
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,760
content centered teaching curriculums
433
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,200
into teaching teachers and to teaching
to students and to teaching.
434
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,760
And that's it. That wrap up is well put.
435
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,080
I totally endorse what you've just said.
436
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,000
It's it's a nice way to end the podcast.
437
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,240
And unfortunately,
now we do have to wrap up.
438
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,360
I generally have learned a lot
about learning, science,
439
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:44,600
education, 4.0, the use of technologies,
and really our approach
440
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,920
to helping students
achieve their best as educators.
441
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,960
That's our responsibility. Vanessa,
thank you very much.
442
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:53,600
It has been interesting. Thank you.
443
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,840
You had a great time. Thanks so much.
444
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,840
If you're feeling unwell
or in need of help, reach
445
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,720
out to anyone in Australia
can get immediate mental health support
446
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:08,360
by calling the national lifeline
on 13, 11, 14 and beyond.
447
00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:12,600
Blue has great 24/7 support staff
and one three hundred
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00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:18,400
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00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:23,120
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00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:27,760
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Reach out to your campus student
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