Kaplan Community Podcast
Listen for free to the personal stories of alumni from Kaplan Business School. Join host Kieran Howard, as we share stories about life as a student, life after graduation, future plans, and staying connected. Get involved with us on our KBS Alumni LinkedIn group at https://www.linkedin.com/groups/6567849/, and with Kaplan Business School at www.kbs.edu.au.
Kaplan Community Podcast
S2 E4 James Adonopoulos and academic wellbeing
Prof James Adonopoulos is the Academic Dean of Kaplan Business School and Kaplan Professional. Listen to James discuss academic wellness and lifetime learning; teaching best practices and KBS; making education culturally relevant; wellbeing and only study; and his 3 proudest achievements.
In PART ONE, James defines academic wellness as activities that makes you feel good and gives your meaning. Feeling good for many persons is learning. That's why KBS endorses the Lifetime Learning Guarantee. It encourages alumni to attend all classes in the course in which they graduated. Read more at 'Lifelong learning: 4 Benefits to Help Your Career Thrive'. Feeling good may also meaning taking a career break. How do you know when to take a break? Listen to your body for the signals that you've gone too far.
In PART TWO, James explains the high standard with which students rank the quality of KBS teaching practices. Learn how KBS outranks all Australian public universities on teaching quality. James is convinced that KBS teaching quality is based on genuine academic compassion and nurturing learning environments.
In PART THREE, James discusses the cultural relevance of education with the internationalisation of KBS courses. The courses are designed to embrace ideas from many countries, with a diversity of people, and with a penchant for engaging all students and teachers in active dialog. Indeed, a genuinely active dialog has shaped the teaching culture at KBS.
In PART FOUR, James relates academic wellbeing with online study. Class are online. Also online are mentoring, academic support, and student services. He notes how KBS delivers online education as a extension of classroom delivery, not as a replacement for on-campus classes. It is a innovative delivery model where KBS is leading the education industry. For additional ideas, read Forbes, '8 Innovative Ideas for Higher Education Right Now' by Brandon Busteed.
Lastly in PART 5, James reflects on his 3 proudest achievements. Listen to hear his personal reflections.
TIMELINE
00:46 PART ONE Academic wellness and lifetime learning
02:05 James' advice for academic wellness
03:28 Effectively managing time and study habits
07:19 Lifetime Learning Guarantee
08:38 Benefits to alumni of the Lifetime Learning Guarantee
09:48 Sustaining wellness for high-achievers
12:07 Knowing when to take a career break
13:38 PART TWO Teaching best practices at KBS
14:08 How benchmarks position KBS
15:36 KBS teaching quality benchmarks
16:09 KBS student support benchmarks
17:18 COVID-19 Student Welfare Plan
19:38 PART THREE Making education culturally relevant
19:47 Internationalisation of the KBS curriculum
22:28 Perilous assumptions of cultural relevance
23:45 Breaking the mould in accounting
22:57 The 'KBS Way'
28:26 Quality of online student experience
30:00 Quality of teaching and learning
32:39 Teaching culture at KBS
33:43 PART FOUR Wellbeing and online study
37:14 Excellence in graduate outcomes
39:00 KBS graduate success in the job market
41:36 Employing lecturers with industry experience
44:02 PART FIVE James' proudest achievements
44:20 Building industry credibility for KBS
45:52 Leading educational innovations
46:57 Establishing professional relations with regulators
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The Kaplan Community podcast is a platform
for the wider Kaplan community
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to share ideas and insights
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that can guide us on our professional
and academic development.
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It's easy to listen
to tackle some hard hitting issues,
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and we think it's a great way
to appreciate diverse perspectives on life
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learning and careers. Hi,
my name is James Adonopoulos.
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I am the Academic Dean from Kaplan
Business School and Kaplan Professional.
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I'm responsible for the strategic
direction of our academic function.
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So I feel quite privileged
to be in a role like this,
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where I can make a difference to the lives
of thousands of students every year.
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Today to continue our series on mental
health and wellbeing.
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We welcome Professor James
at Annapolis, academic
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dean of Kaplan Business School
and Kaplan Professional.
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Thank you for joining us, James.
Thank you, Kiran. Thank you, Richard.
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There's a lot we'd like to learn from you
and a lot to discuss.
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I'd like to start off
with your perspective on academic will be
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so different ideas around
how someone can maintain wellbeing
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while prioritizing academic success.
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And yourself as somebody
who has been a successful student
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many times in your life.
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How do you think students can manage their
time and work life balance successfully?
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Look, it's a tough one,
especially because I know that
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I am not a role model in this respect.
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So the way that I work
and the way that I structure
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my life is definitely not how I would
recommend that anybody else does it,
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because it would not be sustainable
for a majority of people who, for example,
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may have a partner or may have kids
or may have other responsibilities
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or interests or passions
that they're pursuing
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that are just as important
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you might be or even more important
when it comes to family.
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So my advice really in regard to wellness
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is for academics to identify
what makes them feel good.
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That's it. So what makes you feel good?
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So for some, that might mean exercise.
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For others, it may be music.
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For others, it may mean reading.
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For others, it may mean television.
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I think conventional wisdom is
that you have to exercise every day
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or you have to do crossword puzzles
every day to strengthen
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your mind, or you have to make sure
that you meditate or take time off.
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And I, I really dislike
that kind of advice.
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I feel like it doesn't
always work for everyone.
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So my suggestion would be find out
what makes you feel good
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and make sure that you make time for that
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with enough frequency to feel as though
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your life has meaning,
to feel as though your life has value.
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So if watching television
is what fulfills you, then
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watch television,
like make time to watch TV every day.
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You know, if what makes you feel good
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is to do exercise
or to hang out with friends
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or to go for weekends,
well, identify what it is
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and make sure that your
life is not absence of it.
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That's my advice
in terms of academic honors,
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in terms of the student factor,
can you repeat that question, Kiran? Yes.
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So I just wanted to know,
what might you recommend, as you've done
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a lot of study in your life, so
might you recommend, if you have any tips,
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study habits, how to manage
time for a student?
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Yeah, you know, I remember
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I would have been maybe 15, 20 years ago.
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It was my first real
full time corporate job.
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And I had this manager
who had been a high school teacher.
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So she'd had a bachelor of Education.
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She then completed her master of law.
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And then while she was my manager,
she enrolled in an MBA.
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And I remember saying to her,
why would you do that?
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You know, like you really have one degree.
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At that point, I didn't even have one.
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So I was I was a late student.
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It wasn't until I was in my late 20s that
I even thought about going to university.
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So in my mind, there
was just no point to it.
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And I asked it like, why?
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Like, why would you keep going
back to university?
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And her response?
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I've never forgotten.
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Her response was,
if you look at a qualification
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simply in terms of what
you'll get at the end of it.
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So if you start it and all
you can really think of is finishing it,
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that's going to be torture.
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And it'll be it'll be
a horrible experience.
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I had very little to your life questions.
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If you instead look at higher education
as what is adding to my life today.
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So what impact is having on my life?
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What am I learned this week or via
this reading or via this lecture?
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But why are these anything?
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That I'm able to think about
and applied in my life, in my work today.
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Suddenly, she says, higher
education is not at all about finishing
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higher education suddenly become this
integrated part of one's life.
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And as soon as that happens,
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it ceases to be a burden,
but it ceases to be this obligation.
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Instead, it just becomes this is part of
your daily practice is habit.
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Now, that, for me
was genuinely transformative.
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How can a baby, you know, only five
or six times that I've been giving
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that I've been given advice
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that I have tried to always comply with,
and that's been one of them.
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And so it's because of her that I enrolled
in my first degree, you know,
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is because of her that I've continued
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to enroll in degree after degree,
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because I don't see it as something
that I have to complete transactionally.
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I don't know. James, that leads me
to the question about lifetime learning.
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So we've talked a bit about that.
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And KB's has recently made available
subjects for lifetime learning for alumni.
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Now, my question would be,
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in your mind, how would alumni best
make use of lifetime learning?
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And specifically,
what is lifetime learning mean to you?
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So what it means to me?
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Yes. What it means to me
is that it's negligence,
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I think, for any provider
of higher education to think that
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a student's learning ends upon
the completion of their qualification.
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Because it's not free.
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It's unclear. Some of the greatest
learning happens afterwards.
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And also, I think, negligent
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to assume that what a student
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is taught throughout a three year
qualification or a two year qualification,
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whatever it is, is enough to sustain them
throughout their career. It's not.
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And so what our what
our lifetime of learning guaranteed us
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a captain business school
is it acknowledges
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that there's much more that students
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have to learn after they graduate,
because we're still learning.
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We're always still learning.
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That's why we're always making changes
to our curriculum.
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That's why we're always making changes
to our assessments.
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And so they're always making changes
to our pedagogical style. Right.
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So we're always making changes because
we're always learning something new.
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That's what work is like.
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That's what life is like.
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And so what a lot of Mullany guaranteed
does is it offers students,
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offers alumni to benefits
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that definitely don't exist
elsewhere in Australia.
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No other institute of higher
and higher education
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in this country offers
these two benefits to alumni.
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But to our understanding,
we don't think there's any institute
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of higher education
globally that offers these two benefits.
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And we feel that way because
at this year's Pioneer Awards, which is
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the world's most sophisticated awards
platform for international education,
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we're a global finalist
in the progressive education
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delivery category, specifically
for this little malony guarantee.
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Latinum of lending guarantee
basically offers the true benefits.
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And one of those is that forever
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alumni able to come back and meet
with a careers coach one on one
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to get feedback on their CV, feedback
on their cover letter to be introduced
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to prospective employers, to practice
the interview techniques and so on.
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But more more consequential is
the second is the second benefit,
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which is that our alumni
are not just enabled, but encouraged
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to continue to attend
the live online classes
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of any subject of the course
from which they've
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graduated forever and for free.
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So what that means is
a student who's enrolled
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in, say, our most popular course,
which is the MBA.
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Only has to complete
12 subjects to graduate.
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But there are 39 subjects in the NBA
and you could be electives.
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Well, after they graduate.
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They can continue to come back and attend
whichever classes they want
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from any of the 39 subjects,
not just the 12 they happen to complete.
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Actually, James,
if I can follow up on your
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your first point, you've really made me
think about my own life and sort of
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how I envisioned my 30s,
if that makes sense.
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You identified that you're
in a space in your life
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where you can push
productivity levels high and then others,
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someone who may have
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other priorities or dependent children,
might not be suited for this.
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And that's great for their journey.
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But many of our students
also want to push it to the limits.
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They want to put in the hard
work in their 20s
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or 30s, reach certain goals.
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You've said unsustainable when it
when it came down to this lifestyle.
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And I agree. But how can somebody know
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when they may need
to take a break or slow down?
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But I'll preface I'll preface this
by saying to anyone listening
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to be very, very careful
which expert you listen to.
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Right. So be very,
very careful about articles or interviews
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with CEOs who, quote
unquote, can do it all.
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And what does what does
articles really tell you
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is that they have a full time
when they have a full time gardener
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and a full time personal assistant.
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None of us can do it all.
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It's physically impossible.
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It's physically impossible.
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And anyone who tells you
about any motivational speaker,
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any motivation or any life coach
who pretends to tell you
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that you can do whatever you want,
you can achieve anything you wish
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is fundamentally being untruthful
and you cannot trust them.
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That's not the world that we live
in. It's not realistic.
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So that's why prioritization is important.
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So for me to be productive
from a work perspective,
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and I definitely like I know I know
for a fact I'm extremely productive
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from a work perspective, is
because I have to sacrifice other aspects
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of my life that I don't value
as much as other people do.
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So I'm I feel happy and content
sacrificing them
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to do the work that I do
to be productive in the work that I do.
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So that's the preface
for me to answer your question, which is
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how do you know if you're reaching a
point where you need a break?
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Well, step one is to make sure
that you're not being fooled.
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By people who make you believe
that you can do it all because you cannot
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have a think about whether you are
taking on too much unnecessarily.
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And the second is to listen to your body.
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So listen to your body
when you might find yourself, for example,
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placing your head into your palms,
she frequently listen to your body.
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If you happen to find yourself sleeping in
in a way that you never used to
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listen to your body,
if suddenly you feel yourself
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getting aches or pains or rashes
that you never previously had .
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That could be symptomatic
of stress or anxiety.
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So that would be my advice,
you know, when to pull back,
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because your body will give you a signal
that you've gone too far.
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And if you neglect that signal, then
there's oftentimes a greater sacrifice
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than the would have been earlier
had you just prioritized more effectively.
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James, we we know that international
students, particularly according
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to surveys in Australia recently,
that the number one source of anxiety
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among most of them
would be this pressure to succeed.
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So you've really addressed the support
that you would advise
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on helping international students
to get through their studies with us.
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We also do a well
with the international benchmarks.
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So particularly you
mentioned the pie awards.
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But I'm wondering now the benchmarks
from the Australian government of students
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who particularly our postgrad students
who rate our teaching practices
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00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:57,080
almost 10 percent higher than comparable
higher education providers.
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00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,920
So can I ask you, what teaching practice
do you think KB's lecturers
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and our support staff do better than
the other higher education providers?
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Yeah, maybe. Let me elaborate
on that statistic in particular,
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because what makes it special is
that it's not us
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describing ourselves.
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It's our students describing
us, and is, to my understanding,
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the largest type of student satisfaction
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survey done in any country on the planet,
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like the sample size
is almost 300000 students.
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Almost every institute of higher education
in Australia participates in it.
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And on the metric of teaching quality,
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it's true that we outrank our competitors
by 10 percent or whatever it is.
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But the reality is we actually rank higher
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than every single public university
in this country.
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So students oftentimes will look at these,
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you know, these rankings
like the Financial Times
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rankings and so on, and think,
oh, you know, I want to go through this
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prestigious university because it's highly
ranked in the times or whatever it is.
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And they go there and realize, oh,
it may look like on their resume,
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but their experience
as a student is horrible.
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Hence, why a majority of our students
come from public universities.
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They've gone to public
universities, experience for teaching
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their dislike and for, oh, this is
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this is incongruent with the the brand.
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At the public university campus,
so I'm thinking already
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we are ranking Republican officials, but
we also in the top three business schools
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00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,840
in this country, which I think is
an astonishing statistic for us.
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So your question is what makes us
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be able to perform
so well in regard to teacher quality?
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And I am convinced that it is
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that our faculty has embraced
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a supportive and nurturing
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learning environment,
but a genuinely supportive
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and nurturing learning environment.
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And we know that's true,
because in the exact same surveys,
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we also rank every single
public university on the metric of student
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support and have done
so now for three consecutive years.
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00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,840
So we know that when
it comes to the teaching of students,
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we don't at all believe
that our job is just to stand
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at the front of the classroom
and talk at students.
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That's not being supportive.
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That's not being nurturing.
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Be supportive and nurturing
is being compassionate.
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So if we're teaching online, for example,
and students have their cameras off,
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which can be annoying and frustrating,
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we understand at the latest science
in relation to that
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is that oftentimes it's because students
are feeling a sense of shame
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00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,840
because of their surroundings,
because of their housemates,
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because of noisy kids or whatever
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it might be, whatever it is,
I feel some sense of shame.
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So we have to be compassionate.
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And in response to that.
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If a student is going through a
personal a personal problem.
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And my goodness, like
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like it is one cohort of human beings
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that's been affected by COVID 19 more so
or as much as any other.
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00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,920
It would have to be international students
have to be, but they were given
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pretty much zero government support
throughout all of twin.
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Well, we have to be compassionate,
and we were hence
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why we launched our Covid
19 student welfare plan,
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00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:45,200
which was more generous in terms of both
financial and non-financial support
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than any other institutions published
support measures in this country.
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00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,640
Hence, why that Covid 19 was
a plan of ours, was also a finalist
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00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,840
in numerous national
and international awards last year.
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So compassionate,
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I think, is one aspect of
being a supportive and nurturing teacher.
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Another is being observant.
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So noticing students who are quiet
and not judging them for being quiet,
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because the reasons
why students are quiet are not always
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because they're disinterested.
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00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:19,200
It's rarely because it is interested.
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00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,360
It's because it's something else.
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00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:22,440
It's affecting them.
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00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:27,280
So as a caring teacher,
surely, surely it's incumbent upon me
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00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,240
to want to find out
if the student is OK, to ask me to like
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00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,400
to try and support them throughout
whatever they happen to be enduring.
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00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:36,720
And then the final part
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00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,600
that I think makes us supportive
and nurturing is our responsiveness.
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So if students email us, that will respond
within a day or two.
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00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:48,440
The fact that we have
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00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,240
quantitative tutors and online tutors and,
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00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,400
you know, 70 lecturers
who make themselves available
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00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,920
for one on one consultations,
even if the shooting is not in the class.
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00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:03,760
This is the kind of responsive
behavior towards students in need.
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That I think makes us stand
apart from the rest.
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Related to nurturing learning environments
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00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,600
and success for international students.
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00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:19,480
I'm interested in your take
on cultural appropriation,
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00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,760
on teaching and academic resources.
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00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,800
So, for example,
you have tests and assessments
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00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:32,520
that at times have been under fire
for being culturally biased
307
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:37,360
or a poor reflection of people's
learning for the communication method.
308
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:42,760
So what might an institution
do to make an academic experience
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00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,400
culturally relevant
and accessible? Two things.
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The first is one
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00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,920
that we've been working
on, particularly over the past two years,
312
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:59,920
and that's been the internationalization
of the curriculum.
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00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,000
It's really, really unfortunate.
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00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,280
I think that so many textbooks
315
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,400
and so many theories
and so many journal articles
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and publications and YouTube
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00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,640
recordings are American.
318
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,040
I really think that's a shame
that so many are American,
319
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,040
not because there's anything wrong
with the United States,
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00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,720
just because it's not reflective.
321
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,480
Of the world in which we live, it's
not reflective of a school like ours
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00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,600
where 97 percent of students
323
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,600
are born in a non western country.
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00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,160
OK, I just boy in a non-Muslim country,
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00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,680
but born and raised
in a non-Muslim country,
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00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,920
so it's really disconnecting,
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00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,560
I think, for us to be using curriculum
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00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:54,720
that is obviously American,
that's obviously male.
329
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,760
Like, you know, like
a couple of months ago,
330
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,520
I was reviewing slides,
admittedly for one of our subjects.
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00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:02,800
And there was this one.
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00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:05,720
It's one slide that
333
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:10,840
the title was something like a 10
best business books on management.
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00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,280
OK. All Latin American
335
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,960
and all the 10 were written by white men.
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00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,560
OK. That's not the world that we live in.
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00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,680
And so the internationalization
of the curriculum for us
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00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:31,600
and any really any institution
that embraces it is to
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00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,440
write and review curriculum
through the prism of
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00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,800
a diverse world.
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00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,160
Diverse meaning,
not just in terms of ethnicity,
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00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:49,040
but also in terms of gender
and even even case studies.
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00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:54,520
Like if I see one more case study
about Google or Apple
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00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:59,120
or Facebook, I feel like I feel like
vomiting every time I come across.
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00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:03,160
One of those who say they're so cliched
and they're so unrealistic.
346
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,680
Know is what makes Apple succeed.
347
00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:12,320
What makes a trillion
dollar company succeed is not
348
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,600
what's going to make a small business
in western Sydney succeed.
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00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,440
It's not. So to use
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00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,480
case studies of unattainable organizations
351
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,920
doing unattainable things, I think is.
352
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,840
I think it's inappropriate
and there's so much
353
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,480
cultural stuff waiting to the Internet,
internationalization of that.
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00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:35,800
That's my first point.
355
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,120
My second one is to be cautious.
356
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:46,360
That we don't assume that some cultures
want to be taught a certain way.
357
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:52,200
And what I mean by
that is it's common to think that students
358
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:57,320
in some Asian countries
like China or Nam or elsewhere,
359
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,680
they only want to sit in a classroom
360
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:05,920
passively and obediently and quietly
361
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,280
for the two or three hours
at the lecturer is talking to them.
362
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,160
Not talking with them,
363
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:18,760
talking to them, looking at them,
where there's little interaction with
364
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,880
I would never question the teacher
that they would never engage in a debate.
365
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,880
They wouldn't dare
talk to the person next to them.
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00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:28,760
That's that's the that's the perception.
367
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,320
And I think what we've done
I mean, business school
368
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,760
is that we've we've we've proven
369
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,880
that's actually an incorrect view.
370
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,120
The most compelling evidence of
that is our accounting discipline.
371
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:50,800
So if there is, there is one discipline
that's traditionally taught one of the
372
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,960
a traditional uni
directional metamodel. It's a cutting.
373
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:57,680
But it wasn't until Dr.
374
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,760
Mark Wheaten became our academic
director of accounting
375
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,040
that he introduced
the into teaching method,
376
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:10,920
which were rolled out across all of our
accounting subjects in 2017 and 2018
377
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,760
and had made refinements since then in the
in the two or three years since then.
378
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:20,400
And the entire teaching method basically
is the most highly interactive teaching
379
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,240
method possible, where the teacher does
the least amount of talking.
380
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,440
It's the students
that the majority of the talking
381
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:32,760
and the class is predominantly based
around the students practicing accounting
382
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:37,760
and communicating accounting as opposed to
just trying to memorize accounting when.
383
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:40,800
Software packages
384
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,600
are doing the memorization
for us now. Right.
385
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,600
There's no need for simply memorizing
accounting with the hat to know is to.
386
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,640
Understand the practice of accounting
387
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,440
more than anything to communicate
it, hence why every single one
388
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,720
of our accounting subjects,
every single one of them,
389
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:03,800
has a participation mark of 30 percent
and 40 percent of a student's final grade.
390
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,400
So it's pretty much impossible
to pass the subject
391
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,360
unless you're highly interactive.
392
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,920
Now, the majority of students
393
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,560
in the country from.
394
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,840
China from Vietnam
and from the kind of countries
395
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,440
where there's a stereotype,
they want to be passive learners,
396
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,920
and we've proven that's not the case,
because since introducing into teaching,
397
00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:30,720
pass rates have increased by 20 percent
398
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,400
and student satisfaction
has more than doubled.
399
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:36,960
James, I'm really
400
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,600
interested in how we engage students
in a culturally appropriate way,
401
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,760
and you've addressed
that question really well.
402
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,640
Your answer makes me
think about an article
403
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:50,560
that I recently read in Forbes magazine
by Brandon Busteed in 2020.
404
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,800
Brandon notes that very few
higher education
405
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,480
providers actually deliver online
instruction. Well.
406
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,560
To summarize, he's
talking about how we deliver
407
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,200
instruction that's worthy
of our brand reputation.
408
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:07,120
So my question to you is,
how do we at QBs deliver something
409
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:11,280
that's worthy of our brand for students
who study online and on campus?
410
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,120
Let me address the online part furnished
411
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:22,840
by explaining why we do it better
and how we know we do it better.
412
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,680
Now we know do better because for years
413
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,240
our student satisfaction levels
among those who are enrolled
414
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,320
online is incomparably higher
than those Rambold on campus.
415
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,400
And we know that we also do
online, though, because
416
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:44,040
as soon as there was the COVID 19 outbreak
in March last year in Australia,
417
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,480
that resulted in the immediate
lockdown of whole country,
418
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,560
which forced all
419
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,240
pretty much all higher education providers
to just teach online.
420
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,120
Of the of the 170 or so
421
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,360
providers of higher
education in Australia.
422
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:07,560
There was just one independent provider
that takes up the regulator invited
423
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,920
to coproduce and participate
in a webinar series
424
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,800
on how to teach online well.
425
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,560
So we serve as a role model
in terms of online education.
426
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,520
So then then that leads me to the question
of all and what makes our online
427
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,520
online delivery different
than the rest of the system.
428
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,920
And this is a big deal,
I think, because what we saw throughout
429
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,000
COVID 19 was student satisfaction
430
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,960
levels plummet across the whole sector.
431
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,200
And pretty much widespread dissatisfaction
432
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,400
with the students, online
learning experiences.
433
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:47,040
And then a couple of business school.
434
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:49,920
But not not with us.
435
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:55,720
So last so last year,
we shifted even higher
436
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,280
in terms of the federal government's
437
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:05,800
official data on overall quality
of educational experience.
438
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,560
So it's the most important metric.
439
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,520
So the year before 2019,
440
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,240
we were in the top
25 percent of providers.
441
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,200
Last year, middle of Covid,
we moved up to top
442
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,720
20 percent of providers
in this country, again
443
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,360
at Recchi, every single public university
in this country.
444
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,960
So what do we do different them online?
445
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:32,440
What we do is we make sure that what
what students experience online
446
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,400
mirrors what they would have experienced
447
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,160
if they were on campus
sitting in a classroom.
448
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,080
That's very, very important to us.
449
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,160
So instead of doing what
other institutions are doing last year,
450
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,920
which was recycling the recordings
451
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,200
from previous study periods
or or offering bite
452
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,440
sized pieces of a lot of online learning,
it was apparently people
453
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:57,440
have short attention spans.
454
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,480
Well, I think that's
not that's not for us.
455
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,880
That's not our online pedagogical method.
456
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,520
If a Face-To-Face on campus class
457
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,000
goes for three hours,
that's what online students get.
458
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,280
They get a three hour class every week.
459
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:16,400
If on campus students throughout that
three hour class,
460
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,920
which is a workshop
for every single subject, that
461
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,480
every class is a workshop, and then online
students doing that three hours.
462
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,680
You also have a highly interactive
workshop and a couple in business school.
463
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:33,440
We have the 10 the 10 minute rule,
which we which we pioneered years ago,
464
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,200
which forbids any
any any educator, any teacher
465
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,840
from talking for longer than 10 minutes
without immediately
466
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,600
pausing and facilitating
some kind of cognitively
467
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,800
stimulating activity for the students. OK.
468
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,520
That exact same principle applies online.
469
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:59,840
So that's really, I think, at the heart
of our online learning success.
470
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,640
But then to extend it
into the second part of your question,
471
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,640
which is not just about online success,
but just student teaching
472
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:06,760
and learning experience in general,
473
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:11,000
what makes us good at it
, irrespective of whether it's online or
474
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,440
on campus. The answer, I believe,
475
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,400
is that we are authentically obsessed
476
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:25,000
with soliciting and acting
upon student feedback.
477
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,600
Now, many organizations,
many organizations,
478
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,440
many institutions
just pay lip service to student feedback.
479
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,960
There's no there's no way
480
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,760
anyone can accuse us a couple
in business school of doing that.
481
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,480
I think it's physically
impossible since 2016,
482
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:45,600
since the beginning of 2016.
483
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:50,000
Every single trimester
will run what we call feedback
484
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:55,640
week, during which we saturate students
with opportunities to tell us
485
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,280
how we could improve.
486
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,320
And always, always, always
487
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,320
within a week, we'll go back to them,
I think, to analyze their feedback.
488
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,000
And we'll say to them,
here are the five, six,
489
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,280
seven solutions we're now
going to implement
490
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,840
directly as a result of the feedback
you've given us.
491
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,840
What that has meant is that since 2016,
we have implemented
492
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:26,480
dozens upon dozens
of significant projects,
493
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:32,000
initiatives and solutions directly
because students have requested them.
494
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:37,000
So students themselves can see for real
that their feedback matters.
495
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,080
The feedback is heard.
496
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,280
But more than anything,
the feedback is acted upon.
497
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,840
And as a result,
that means how we teaching the classroom,
498
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:47,920
how we structure assessments,
499
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,720
how we give feedback on assessments,
how we structure
500
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,680
our online learning management system
that everyone has access to.
501
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,040
What kind of resources we provide.
502
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,080
What kind of courses we offer.
503
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,080
What kind of support we we make available.
504
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,040
All that kind of stuff.
505
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,520
All that kind of stuff has been born from.
506
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,120
Feedback was heard and acted upon.
507
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,160
James, from my experience,
I've been working with you now
508
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,320
for a couple of years,
and I'm particularly thinking back
509
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,600
a lot of lecturer's
really nervous about going online.
510
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,880
I remember doing a survey
when we first started at approximately
511
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,040
30 percent of lecturers
were really hesitant to go online.
512
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,760
And we're used to teaching face to face.
513
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,880
And we did it compassionately respond
to their feedback.
514
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,360
And now some of those lecturers
who were in that
515
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,280
30 percent of hesitancy
have become our best online teachers.
516
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,240
So the point I want to make
is really just a comment
517
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,000
that we do support our students,
we do care about our students
518
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,680
were compassionate also to our lecturers.
519
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,640
So I think that compassion pervades
our culture from student experience
520
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,600
to how we engage as an employee
with our lecturers.
521
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,200
I've been to for five and a half years,
and I cannot recall a single time
522
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,240
that either my my manager,
the executive director, Steven Ducey
523
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,480
or myself have received more
524
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,800
written compliments
from faculty than we did
525
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,160
during the transition
to online learning, because
526
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,400
most of our teachers are also employed
at other institutions,
527
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,840
which is beautiful, you know , because
they can see how we compared to others.
528
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:30,000
And during that time, about in June,
during that time of unprecedented crisis,
529
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:36,280
they got to see that
the other institutions that were employed
530
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,200
were not in any way from any way
providing them with the kind of support
531
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,680
that we would, providing
them. Here are a couple of reasons.
532
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,280
I think it's important to explore
533
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,800
online study from a well-being
perspective as well.
534
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,760
And, you know, you mentioned
cameras off, and that's OK.
535
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,840
And there's sometimes
very good reasons for that.
536
00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,080
If someone's on campus
or in the classroom, there are some ways
537
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,000
to communicate with them
and see how they're doing as well.
538
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,360
Tell if there are things
they don't understand.
539
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,840
Tell if they're under some
stress. Normal human cues.
540
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:12,400
How can we support
541
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,200
students in an online environment
if I'm a lecturer?
542
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,360
How can I connect with my students
to the same degree?
543
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,680
Yeah, I would say just a couple of things.
544
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,360
The first is to analyze
545
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,000
which classes are play.
546
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,840
With the problem of students
547
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,120
having their cameras
off, thereby inhibiting.
548
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,560
The connection, you know,
the human connection
549
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,440
versus the ones where
that's not a problem.
550
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,800
But that's unheard of where
she didn't have the cameras on
551
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,080
and there's genuine human
to human connection.
552
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:53,520
And there are a couple of
553
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,880
there are a couple of things
that have come up for us. One is
554
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,080
I mentioned earlier accounting discipline.
555
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,320
She used to have the cameras off
in the accounting.
556
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,160
Why is that? Well,
one reason is because 30 percent
557
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,680
to 40 percent of the final grade
is based upon their participation.
558
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,960
So unless the prison
and have the cameras on
559
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,440
and are making an effort to engage
with their colleagues
560
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,000
and their teacher,
they're not going to progress well .
561
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,240
The other, though,
is that we have numerous lectures
562
00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:28,520
and we're fortunate
to have numerous lectures here
563
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,040
who have built a brand,
564
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,240
I think, around themselves being.
565
00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:37,720
Being inspiring, being
566
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,880
engaging in provocative,
567
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,720
thought provoking, being so experienced
568
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:49,240
that students want to have the cameras on
569
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,680
in order to be able to connect with them
because they feel
570
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,400
that they feel turned on by them
in a cognitive sense, you know.
571
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,560
So there's something in that.
572
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,920
So I think there's something
in both of those
573
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:07,440
in the expansion of participation marks,
but also in the cultivation
574
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,000
among the lecturers
of the kind of delivery.
575
00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:16,120
Whether it's online or on campus,
576
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,280
that would compel a student either
Cumberland had that
577
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:25,560
come online and had their camera on
or to attend the physical classroom.
578
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,800
There is something in that charisma
that I think we can
579
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,120
cultivate more of an educated.
580
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:36,880
I love that I can say, actually,
when I was studying KB's classes,
581
00:36:37,240 --> 00:36:39,360
it was the lecturer personal brand
582
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,840
that was the main thing
that made me want to connect with them.
583
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,920
The curriculum is fantastic,
my students and actually really good
584
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,200
to connect with fellow students.
585
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:49,440
But it's very true.
586
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,960
You connect with lecturers who who make it
587
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,840
obviously you want to connect with.
588
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,200
I have just one more from me,
James, if I can.
589
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,960
In my role, I frequently looked
at the graduate outcome survey.
590
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:09,200
So that's that's a survey of where
alumni in Australia,
591
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:13,960
of all institutions, end up six months
after they finished their studies.
592
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:19,240
And I often look at graduate outcomes
as a measure of educational outcomes,
593
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:24,080
as a measure of the quality of education
provided. And CBIA.
594
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:29,040
Actually, we rate really high
upper range of things
595
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:33,680
on things like graduate's performance
at work, relevance
596
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:38,160
to their professions, even our graduates
salaries are on the higher range.
597
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,600
So as our dean, what would you say
598
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,360
if there's one thing that would lead KB's
599
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:51,720
students to those higher outcomes versus
the many institutions that are on there
600
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:53,760
? It's true that we
601
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,840
perform more strongly
than any of our competitors
602
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:02,560
and certainly every public university,
depending on the mission that you look at.
603
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,480
For example, starting salaries
for our MBA graduates
604
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,760
is, one, the proportion
605
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,520
of postgraduate students who are employed
upon graduation and so on.
606
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,480
So we know we do graduate outcomes.
607
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,320
Well, I think it's a two way.
608
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,280
I think it's one of those
takes two to tango outcomes.
609
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,120
And what I mean by that is it's first
and foremost incumbent on us
610
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:35,280
as the provider of higher education
to make sure that we're not we're
611
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:39,520
teaching students in a way that's aligned
with the ultimate objective,
612
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,680
because the ultimate objective
for most students.
613
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:46,000
It's not like it is for me.
614
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,000
You know, I do higher
education as a hobby.
615
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,240
I just I enjoy it.
616
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:55,160
And that's a sign of privilege
617
00:38:55,640 --> 00:39:00,360
and a sign of what's possible
for a minority of the population.
618
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,360
The majority do not have
that kind of luxury
619
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,800
and are completing higher education
or just one purpose.
620
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,680
And that is I want to make certain
that at the end of the qualification,
621
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,920
they that they are
able to get for themselves.
622
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,760
A better job or even a job?
623
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,360
In many cases, but ultimately
a better job in the hope
624
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,160
that it will create
for them a better life.
625
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,320
When I say them,
I mean not just for them personally,
626
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:32,040
but oftentimes for their communities
back in their country of origin
627
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:36,520
to whom they usually send back money
to support them.
628
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,200
That's the ultimate
objective, really, of students
629
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:46,640
when you're a provider of higher education
to predominantly international students.
630
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,160
So we have to make sure, again,
that the way that we're teaching them
631
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,800
is completely along with that.
632
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:55,360
So how do we do that?
633
00:39:55,360 --> 00:40:00,640
We do that by making certain
that we only ever design assessments
634
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,760
that reflect the kind of work
635
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,600
that a student would be expected
to perform in the workplace.
636
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:10,240
OK, we're in the workplace.
637
00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:13,360
None of us are ever required
to write theoretical lessons.
638
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,000
So then why would there be
a theoretical essay that we set?
639
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:18,440
We just would not do that.
640
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,240
It's nonsensical.
641
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,320
In the world, we never have to write
a literature review.
642
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,240
So what would be imposed upon students?
643
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:31,200
So for us, when it comes to assessments,
it's very much about designing something
644
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,360
in alignment with the Australian
qualifications framework.
645
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,040
But that requires
students to perform tasks
646
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,160
that are reflective of the work
they will eventually be doing,
647
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,880
so that when they're someday
going for job interviews,
648
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,960
they can more authoritatively
and more confidently assert
649
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,960
that they've had practice
at doing the job.
650
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,840
As a result of their experience
as a student, a couple in business school,
651
00:40:55,280 --> 00:41:00,440
and even better in many cases, they can
present to their potential employer
652
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:05,000
a portfolio containing examples of work
that they've done
653
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,280
as a result of their assessments.
Åkerblom Business School.
654
00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:09,560
So there's that.
655
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:13,440
There's the assessment
piece is also the curriculum itself.
656
00:41:13,720 --> 00:41:16,400
You know, so are
the subjects that we have.
657
00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:22,600
Are they in both nomenclature and topics
reflective of the world today?
658
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,720
If they are great.
659
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:29,320
If they're not in, they have to change
and we bring the Vatican
660
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,840
in in making those changes.
661
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,320
But also he's doing the teaching.
662
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:40,360
So if if the people who are doing
the teaching are Korea academics.
663
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,080
And I'm not discounting at all
the value of two academics,
664
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,920
but to students at a school
with their students have a predominant
665
00:41:49,240 --> 00:41:52,680
objective of employment.
666
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,120
Career academics are not as popular
667
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,480
as relevant because students care
less about research.
668
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,760
We do as academics
that shouldn't care less about research,
669
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,720
so for us, a couple of measurements
will the first criterion is,
670
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:13,920
does someone have industry experience
related to the subjects that we teach you?
671
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,480
In addition to the
necessary qualifications.
672
00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:21,960
So having the qualifications
and enough having journal publications.
673
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:28,200
Thank you. We care about is
are you able, as a result of your previous
674
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,800
and preferably current work
experience, able to articulate in class
675
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:39,240
interesting and relevant examples of case
studies that you either experienced?
676
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:41,760
Or that you know of
677
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,360
as a result of your industry
industry backgrounds.
678
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,200
So all that combined is one partner's
679
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,000
responsibilities
in the two to tango equation.
680
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:57,560
If you haven't got a partner or it's the
student, there's only so much we can do.
681
00:42:57,840 --> 00:42:59,480
As the educator.
682
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:04,000
So the student has to make an effort
that the student has to attend classes.
683
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:06,920
They shouldn't have to build
a relationship with their teachers.
684
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,840
The student has to be attending
the academic success center for help.
685
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:15,120
The student has to be making appointments
to meet with their careers coach,
686
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:19,600
both while they're a student and
after they graduate as an alumni member.
687
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,800
The students have to be focused on
688
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:24,960
understanding what's
meant by professionalism,
689
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:30,720
you know, and what that means is
they can't be sending emails to
690
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,760
to prospective employers as though they're
sending them a text message.
691
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,120
They have to be interested
in participating in internships
692
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:40,480
or work placements.
693
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:44,280
So there's effort involved,
you know, in presentation
694
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,640
and so on, in order for employability
outcomes to ensue.
695
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,960
You've talked with a tone of pride
and passion about how we produce
696
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:54,640
graduate outcomes.
697
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,960
We've talked about the responsibilities
for learning by students
698
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,760
and lecturers with an allusion
to two persons dancing the tango.
699
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,360
But ultimately, good employment
outcomes for students
700
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,680
also comes down to good leadership
of Kaplan, Australia, Kaplan
701
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,040
Business School and your own leadership
as dean and professor.
702
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,000
In the future, when people
reflect on your legacy,
703
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,800
what are your accomplishments
that you would most like them to remember?
704
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,160
I reckon I reckon
705
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,560
there are three things
I would say that I'm most proud of
706
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,600
and would want to be remembered as having
707
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:33,160
had an influential role in generating.
708
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,880
The first would be that when I started
709
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,520
a couple in business school back in 2015,
710
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,120
we were officially in the bottom
711
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:47,680
11 percent of all higher education
providers in this country.
712
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,160
So I'd like you to imagine what
that would have been like. Like
713
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:56,200
imagine the the shame
that many staff members felt,
714
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:01,520
you know, knowing that they're working for
what's publicly available.
715
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,040
Right. As one of the bottom 11 percent.
716
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,800
Of providers in this country in
terms of quality of education experience.
717
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:15,080
So for me to have played
an influential role as an academic leader
718
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:20,720
in taking us from being in the bottom
11 percent and increasing
719
00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:24,920
every single year
since then to a point where we're now
720
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:29,520
in the top 20 percent of all providers
exceeding every public university
721
00:45:29,720 --> 00:45:33,880
, like back in 2015, 2016,
and something that would that
722
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,480
like we were even thinking in those terms.
723
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,080
Now, that would be my first
my first of three back.
724
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,440
But I feel like that.
725
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,040
But I and my team
had a transformative effect
726
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:51,800
on our quality as measured
independently by the federal government.
727
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:56,360
The second is that I feel as though
728
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:00,240
I have seriously innovative
in terms of the way
729
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:05,600
that higher education can be both taught
and packaged as products.
730
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,400
And that's that's evidenced by national
731
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,000
and global awards,
which have been finalists.
732
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:18,680
It's probably most evident in our MBA,
which I led the redesign of.
733
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,840
Back in 2016 for launch in 2017,
734
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:27,800
that had at the time
about 10 points of differentiation.
735
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,080
There were unheard-of
in higher education in Australia.
736
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:33,520
And as a result.
737
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:39,040
Ariba is now the third most popular
in this country in terms of the number
738
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,800
of student enrollments, which for us
as an institution, as a for profit.
739
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,440
A proudly for profit
institution is very important
740
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,600
not to have such a lucrative product,
and so does the MBA.
741
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:54,120
But, you know, analytics
courses and numerous
742
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,160
other courses have performed
equally equally well.
743
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,560
And then my third would be something
744
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,800
that I regard as as important,
745
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,920
if not more important
than commercial success.
746
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:13,760
And that is the regulators
view of us as an institution,
747
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:19,440
because if the regulator
has an unfavorable view, it becomes
748
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:23,400
profoundly difficult, profoundly difficult
749
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,200
to get coursers accredited, for example.
750
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:32,080
It becomes profoundly more difficult
to deal with spontaneous audits.
751
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,440
But our relationship
with the but with the regulator,
752
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:40,120
I feel is strong and special,
and that's evidenced in a number of ways.
753
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,760
It's evidenced by Kaplan Business School
754
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,560
being selected to represent
the independent sector
755
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,360
on the Department of Education's
working group for Academic Integrity.
756
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:56,000
I think it's reflected in my involvement
as a national board director
757
00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:00,120
for our peak body here, Independent
Higher Education Australia.
758
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:05,600
It's evident in the regulator
inviting Capstan Business School
759
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:10,640
to deliver a plenary session at the annual
Conference on Academic Integrity
760
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,960
to be a coproducer of the Web
series on online
761
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,720
teaching of the Leader Conference.
762
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:21,480
When I needed an exemplar
763
00:48:21,720 --> 00:48:25,600
to be interviewed on quality education,
the people who chose us.
764
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:30,440
Since all this kind of stuff
that I thought I had been pivotal
765
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:34,880
in, I've been instrumental
in, has helped us strengthen
766
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:39,800
our regulatory reputation
in a really important way.
767
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:42,600
And that important. Why is that?
768
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:46,440
It sets us up later this year
quite well, to submit an application
769
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:48,920
to become a self-liquidating authority.
770
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:52,600
I mentioned before, there are 170
something providers in this country
771
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:56,600
of the non universities,
which is about 130 or so.
772
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,240
Only a dozen Asaph accredited.
773
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:02,240
So if we're successful,
will be in the 30s or 40s.
774
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,360
The fact that we're even on the verge
of submitting application
775
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:10,160
is something we would not have dreamt
of even three years ago
776
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,040
alone, five or six years ago.
777
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:16,000
And so that would be my third
my third legacy that I would like
778
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:19,800
to be remembered by, that I helped
I to be viewed by the regulator
779
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:24,760
as worthy of submitting an application
to become supplicating
780
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,560
as a result of the reputational
stuff and the governance.
781
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,160
James, this is a great interview.
782
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:36,920
I think we covered a lot and it's
going to be really hard to edit down,
783
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,920
just really gained a lot
from your perspectives on academic
784
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:44,640
wellbeing, online
learning, academic excellence.
785
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,360
So it's been a real pleasure.
And thank you so much for your time.
786
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:48,840
Thank you. Karen. Thank you, Richard.
787
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:50,280
Thank you, James.
788
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,640
If you're feeling unwell
or in need of help,
789
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:57,920
reach out to anyone in Australia
can get immediate mental health support
790
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:03,560
by calling the national lifeline
on 13, 11, 14 and beyond.
791
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:07,840
Blue has great 24/7 support staff
and one three hundred
792
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:13,560
twenty two forty six thirty
six Chaplet employees can contact H.R..
793
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,720
Our Access Free Counseling CBIA
794
00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:20,040
students have access to your free
confidential campus counselors.
795
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:25,120
Safety and support services such as Sonder
reach out to your campus student
796
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,920
experience team for friendly guidance
on accessing these services.