Kaplan Community Podcast

S2 E2 Andy Garnam on Organisational Wellbeing

Dr. Richard Stejer and Kieran Howard Season 2 Episode 2

Andy Garnam is the Executive Director - People & Culture at Kaplan Australia & New Zealand.   Listen to Andy's discussions of mental health and wellbeing; and careers in managing human resources.

In PART ONE, Andy explains the exciting and important services for staff and students.  Kaplan Business School and Kaplan Professional staff and students can access Sonder; student wellbeing services; and counselling assistance.  

  • The newest service, Sonder, is an app that staff and students can access for free for 24x7 emotional support and security.  Click here for information about Sonder.    
  • The Student Wellbeing program tailors its counselling support to the struggles of studying on students’ mental health.  Find out more information about Student Wellbeing at Kaplan Business School and Kaplan Professional.  
  • Counselling assistance via the Employee Assistance Program (EAP) is available for staff and students.  Access free and strictly confidential counselling assistance on the Student Wellbeing links above.  Students, you can now access EAP too!

In PART TWO, Andy shares his career experiences in human resource management (HR).  Listen as he explains the what the future of work looks like in generalist and specialist HR roles.  As well, Andy notes the prevalence of digitising HR records and opportunities in specialist HR roles.

For additional episodes, refer to the Kaplan Community Podcast webpage.   

CHAPTERS
00:31  PART ONE: MENTAL WELLBEING AND HEALTH
01:32  Sonder for staff and students
03:38  EAP services for staff and students
04:25  How Andy manages mental wellbeing
06:10  About Andy's role in Kaplan Australia & New Zealand
07:24  Taking responsibility for mental wellbeing
09:21  The right way to ask, 'are you ok?'
11:23  Talking with counsellors or EAP
13:19  Setting-up a mental health plan for staff
16:05  Common issues with wellbeing
18:48  PART TWO: MANAGING HUMAN RESOURCES
19:02  HR trend #1, future of work
19:57  HR trend #2, digitisation
21:07  Generalist or specialist careers in HR
22:41  Choosing which industry to begin your career
27:07  Growing your career to a leadership level
29:25  Where you can access confidential support

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The Kaplan Community podcast is a platform
 for the wider Kaplan community

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to share ideas and insights 

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that can guide us on our professional
 and academic development.

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It's easy to listen
 to tackle some hard hitting issues,

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and we think it's a great way
 to appreciate diverse perspectives

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on life learning and careers.

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Hi, I'm Andy Garnham,
 I look after the People and Culture,

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Facilities, and Health and Safety teams
 here at Kaplan, Australia and New Zealand.

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To launch season
 two of the Kaplan Community

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podcast, we'll be starting a short series
 on the important issues of mental

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wellbeing and mental health
 as they relate to the Kaplan community.

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Its students, alumni and staff.

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And we're lucky enough
 to have a very special guest.

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Andy Garnham is the executive
 director of People

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and Culture at Kaplan,
 Australia and New Zealand.

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So that's spanning
 CAP Business School, Kaplan

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Professional and several important
 pathway organizations.

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Andy, thank you for joining us.

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How are you doing today? 

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Kiran, thank you very much to you
 and Richard for having me.

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It's great to be here today
 to have a chat to you.

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And I think it's a really important issue.

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You mentioned some of the resources
 that we do have or

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we've talked about ippy and counseling.

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Could you expand on that a bit or perhaps
 what should I do

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if I'm an employee
 and I feel like I could use help? Sure.

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So there's an I guess a number of avenues.

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One really important
 and probably a thing really exciting

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and new concept is Sonder, which is an app

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that our students can access for free
 and our staff can access for free, which,

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you know, every time
 I talk to particularly Alex Raymond

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Clark in Cabe's about it,
 I couldn't wrap my head around it first

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because it seemed to be like
 what can't what counts on to do?

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You know, they seem to be able
 to do everything.

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And the more I've used it myself
 and looked into it,

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it is a fantastic
 first avenue for people to access.

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If they're feeling vulnerable,
 if they're feeling under threat,

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if they're not sure on particularly
 our international students, you know,

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not sure on what's right or wrong
 or if somebody's somebody saying

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potentially they're a policeman
 and that they need to do this.

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And that is this 

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is that how I need to respond
 in Australia is at the right or wrong

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think it gives them access to to support
 and help pretty much at their fingertips.

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You know, they can get medical treatment
 organized through SONDA.

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They can get the police or medical
 services sent out to them straight away

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if they're in a vulnerable situation.

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You're walking home late at night
 and feeling uncertain.

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They can have Sonder track their movements
 and make sure that they're going to

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where they said they were going
 and if they don't, to to contact them

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and check in on them. 

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So that's one fantastic,
 I think, way to access

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access, support, but more,
 I guess, generally in day to day as well.

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If if it's a staff member or a student,

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I think it's talking to someone first
 and foremost, you know, for our students.

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They have their teachers
 and academic staff

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that may not always have the right answers
 or may not have the answers

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that they think that student needs
 will always be able to still point them

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in the right direction.
 We've got our student 

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experience teams that can point them
 in the right direction.

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They can get access staff
 and students directly to

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AP through accessing life works, you know,
 calling someone so they don't ever

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need to talk to somebody at Kaplan
 if they don't feel that's the way.

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And also, from a staff perspective,
 the Daija team are always there as well.

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And the health and safety team,
 any you've mentioned the soundtrack

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and how it helps when we're not on campus
 or not at work about

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just asking for help of how to respond
 or what we should do in a situation.

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And then on campus,
 we're at work talking to someone,

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whether it's via the employee
 assistance program or for staff or

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counselors for students. 

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But now we're facing
 Covid and social isolation.

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So I'm curious, how do you manage
 good mental well-being in yourself?

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Yeah, sure. And look,

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it's it's up and down for me,
 like I'm sure it is for everyone.

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So by no means is a perfect.

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But I do try and keep a balance of things,
 so particularly my health and exercise.

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So when I'm outside of lockdown,
 I'd definitely like

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to go to the gym every morning
 and I can't do that at the moment.

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So I really take the opportunity
 at least once or twice

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a day to get out with my dogs,
 get some fresh air,

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and just actually get away
 from the computer screen

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and get away from the room
 and have a change of scene.

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All the things that I probably try
 and do in Day-To-Day life, to be honest,

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Richard, as well. 

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So I try to eat as well as I can,
 although I have to admit during lockdown,

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I tend to to treat myself a little bit
 more than I normally would.

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And definitely, you know,
 from a sleep perspective,

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I really focus on getting my
 my eight hours, which I know

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is what I need to to feel refreshed
 and sort of energized

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and often from, I guess, day to day
 perspective working.

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You know, it's different 

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when you're working in front 

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of the computer screen in a bedroom
 compared to being in the office.

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So I do try and get up a lot
 throughout the day, move around,

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talk to my dogs or my partner,
 and just sort of, again, sort of reset

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change scene, as you would in the office
 or , you know, on campus in a school

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if you're working and you're not doing
 the same thing over and over again.

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Yeah, I've found that to be
 one of the tough parts, actually,

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is the division between work and home life
 that that reset.

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I think that's well put. 

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Just for our listeners also,
 perhaps those who don't work at Katlin.

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Would you give a bit of background
 on what your role is at

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Kaplan, Australia,
 New Zealand? Yeah. Sure.

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So as you mentioned, my title,
 which is not necessarily

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the same as what you do day to day,
 but my title is executive director

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People and Culture from a couple
 in Australia, New Zealand perspective.

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I look after people
 and culture in that team.

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I also look after the administration
 and facilities team

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and the health and safety team,
 which is now two people.

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So we can call on the team aside.

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So a broad, broad remit,
 but actually works really well together

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with facilities, 

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human resources and health and safety,
 and particularly in the last year

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or so with Covid in the pandemic ,
 you know, health and safety

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and how we can use our facilities,

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our campuses and our schools is as much
 have kind of facilities

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issue as it is an issue
 and a health and safety issue.

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So we we work all really well together,
 but have our sort

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of separate remit within my team. 

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And so you oversee pretty diverse,

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a wide ranging departments
 and disciplines.

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What would you say then? 

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And I don't know if this is just
 pertaining to human resources, but

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what would you say is the responsibility
 towards wellbeing and mental health?

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So, yeah, I mean, I think it's a shared
 responsibility overall,

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which is probably a little bit
 what you're alluding to there, Kiran.

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But from a, you know, an eye chart
 perspective, health and wellbeing is

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sort of one element of, I guess,
 the employee or the student life cycle.

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So for us tonight,
 our focus is really supporting

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and guiding our people, leaders
 and having the right processes

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in place to help
 throughout that lifecycle.

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So as you know, employees are coming on
 board as they're learning changing roles,

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you know, going through performance
 management, whether that's, you know,

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growth in performance or performance
 that isn't going so, so well.

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So along that journey
 and through that lifecycle,

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the health and wellbeing
 piece is is an element

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that, you know, sits into all of that
 or probably you could say underlines that.

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So really how we interrelate,

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how we support our staff,
 we need to have wellbeing

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or as you talked about,
 layer compassion as well as our focus

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. I'm proud of the compassion we have
 for all of our staff and students,

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and it relies on our ability
 to ask a very simple question

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along the lines of are you OK?

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But when I asked that question, I'm
 really nervous that someone will give me

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a really truthful answer
 that I don't know how to respond to.

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For example, periodically
 when I'm feeling anxious or someone

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says, Oh, Richard, are you OK?

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Deep down inside, I know I'm not OK,
 but I feel self-conscious

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that someone is noticed
 or maybe singling me out.

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So I'm asking for your advice
 when trying to be compassionate.

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What's the best way to ask someone
 if they're feeling OK?

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I think you're the way you're
 feeling about it,

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Richard, is probably very universal
 and very common.

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I don't think any of us necessarily
 feel really comfortable.

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And maybe it's part
 of the human condition. I don't know.

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But, you know, probably first
 defense is to is to say, yep, I'm fine.

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Nothing to worry about,
 you know, nothing to say here.

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And again, for me, you know, in my role,
 it doesn't always come easy.

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But I think the first thing I think about
 is just trying to be authentic about it

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and ask the question
 and not be afraid to do say

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or act in the wrong way. 

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Because really, if you're coming
 from a place of compassion,

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if you are genuinely concerned or worried,

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you know how somebody responds to you
 with that you can't control.

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But asking the question you can control.

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I think in terms of how we
 then deal with the response,

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you know, it is different
 in every situation.

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And I think we are. 

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I would say lucky here at Kaplan in that

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we've got a lot of resources available

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at our hands so that we don't actually
 have to be the expert.

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It may be that you're
 compassionate in the moment

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that you're saying to someone, wow,
 that sounds like a really tough time.

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Have you thought
 about contacting the employee

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assistance program
 or have you thought about talking to the

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counseling team and saying
 what options I might have for you

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and actually guiding people,
 I guess, to expertize

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and not feeling like
 you actually have to have all the answers

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because you don't have them
 and I don't have them.

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But somebody will.

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I guess the first thing for me to do 

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is get over the lack of confidence
 that I might hurt somebody else.

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And instead, I can see how to act
 from a position of compassion for others.

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So it's a good point, Andy. 

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So my next question is, 

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what if a person is going to decide
 to seek counseling services?

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What are some of the things
 that they might be feeling?

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What kinds of things might they be able
 to talk about with a counselor or ippy?

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It's wide ranging to be honest.

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And probably first and foremost,
 I should put the disclaimer in the AP

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and our counseling services
 that are on site are all confidential.

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So, you know, the counselors
 have have a first and important,

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I suppose, role in keeping that student

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all that employee's issues
 confidential in terms

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of what they could be speaking about,
 could be a range of things.

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So, you know, from a student or a staff
 perspective that might be somebody

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struggling and not quite sure why,
 you know, maybe their

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their grades are going down or they're not
 feeling as engaged in their work, etc.

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That might be more,
 I suppose, in your face in terms of what

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the issues could be. 

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You know, somebody might be struggling
 with an addiction with gambling.

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It could be financial issues.

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They might be having domestic
 violence issues.

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So it could be a whole range of things. 

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And I guess for me, the probably

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the important part of the counseling
 service is that.

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It doesn't have to seem like a big issue

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that our staff and students
 need to talk to a counselor about.

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It could be something that maybe,

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maybe they think is small and not worthy
 of talking to a counselor about.

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00:12:55,880 --> 00:13:00,800
But if they start that process early on
 and I guess there's an early intervention

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00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,480
that that could potentially
 help their wellbeing

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00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:06,640
and help help the outcome. Longer-Term.

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00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:13,120
So it's true. Kaplan does
 have the resources and epee counseling

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00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,640
for four staff. And from an Hajar
 perspective or people in culture.

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00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:23,480
What are the challenges or key things
 to focus on when you're setting up

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00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,480
a mental health plan for staff,
 when you're sort of strategically looking

217
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,480
at how do we protect or serve? Our staff

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00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:36,120
is short. So I think
 it needs to have a number of factors.

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00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,840
So it's never going to be a
 one size fits all.

220
00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,760
You know, some people won't feel confident
 about going to counseling

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00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:45,320
no matter what we say. 

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00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,680
You know, that you know, it's up
 to the individual at the end of the day.

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00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,680
So for us, in the approach
 we've taken, it, Kaplan, is to try

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00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:56,680
and build on what we've got
 and to try and better that.

225
00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,440
So, you know, we started off.

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When you think about our journey,
 we started off with AARP,

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00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,520
which lots of organizations
 have for their staff.

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00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,760
And often it's kind of,
 you know, banner on the bottom of a

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00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:11,200
sort of Internet page somewhere. 

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There's there's a pay
 call them if you need them.

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00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:18,840
We then built on that as our student
 core cohort grew and understood

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00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,640
that really we needed to start engaging

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00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,280
face to face and having counselors
 on the ground that kind of,

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00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:31,160
I guess, more aligned to more in tune
 with the Day-To-Day student issues.

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00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:37,360
So adding that element in, we try and
 communicate quite a bit here at Kaplan.

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00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,720
And I know there's,
 you know, particularly for me, as you guys

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00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,640
would say, a lot of communication
 out about a lot of things.

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00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,360
But we do always try
 and include that sort of counseling

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00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:51,480
well-being type message
 in the communications that we do.

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00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,760
We've also moved, particularly
 when we moved offsite

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00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,880
with Covid to having resources

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00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:02,720
available on SharePoint, on our Internet.

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00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:04,360
So really multi, multi

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00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,120
pronged approach. 

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00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:11,080
And I suppose the false element
 there is a little bit about training.

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00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,960
And Richard spoke,
 I guess, before about that

247
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:18,520
uncertainty, not necessarily
 knowing what to do or to say.

248
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:20,680
We do have mental health. 

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00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,320
First aid training in place
 may not have gotten

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I don't think it has got to our sort
 of academic staff yet,

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00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,480
but certainly our student experience
 and student services

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00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,520
staff have gone through mental health
 first aid training to help train

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00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:38,680
and equip them with some of that knowledge
 and some of those skills in terms

254
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,080
of identifying mental health
 or well-being issues

255
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,360
and then directing people
 the right way, I suppose.

256
00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,600
I think it was really actually important
 how you highlighted

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00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,120
some of these issues
 that may be affecting staff.

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00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:56,800
So people might realize I'm
 I'm a professional or I'm

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00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,640
a student who cares about my studies,
 and I'm not the only one

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00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,480
who might have an addiction issue
 or might be suffering abuse.

261
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,240
What are some of them
 are some of the most common things

262
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,080
that you think people may be facing?

263
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:16,000
There's a lot happening around
 depression, loneliness

264
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,360
with that coming out of the pandemic
 or whether it's just through

265
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:24,920
general day to day pace of life
 for people, domestic violence issues.

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00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:30,200
You know, it's really important and a
 and a big element and probably something

267
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,840
particularly in Australia
 that in the past we haven't spoken

268
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,840
so much about that these days.

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00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:42,320
More and more people are talking about it
 as as an issue and being up front

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00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,560
that people may have that issue
 and may need support.

271
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,680
And then, you know,
 all the other things that you just

272
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,320
mentioned around addiction,
 et cetera, everybody.

273
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,360
Financial issues that could
 there could be a whole gamut of things,

274
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,040
to be honest, Kiran. So, yeah,
 but they're probably the key ones for me.

275
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,040
Well, I appreciate your answer
 and the honesty as well.

276
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,400
That doesn't make a lot of sense,
 but I think the important message

277
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:10,520
or what I derived was that, you know,
 whatever you might be facing

278
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,280
there is an avenue for support
 and you should definitely reach out.

279
00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:16,560
Yeah, that's exactly right. 

280
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:21,560
And again, you know, our counselors,
 whether they be our student

281
00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,640
counselors on site or the AP service,

282
00:17:25,120 --> 00:17:27,600
again, they may not be the experts

283
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,880
in all of these issues,
 but they certainly have the skills

284
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:36,320
to help navigate
 and guide people through those issues

285
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,960
and also then to steer them
 to the appropriate

286
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:46,280
professional course of action,
 you know, could be to a GP or to a further

287
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:50,760
counseling service that specializes
 in addictions or whatever the case may be.

288
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,240
So really, counseling
 could be for some people

289
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,600
first and last step,
 or it could be the first step

290
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,800
into a bigger and broader sort of life
 program to help them get through.

291
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:04,320
A few months ago, I 

292
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,800
did contact the EP,
 the employee assistance program,

293
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,400
and I found it so easy
 because, number one,

294
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,080
it was literally a phone call
 to set up an appointment,

295
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,560
and then it was on to a counselor
 who is really, really valuable

296
00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,440
in helping me through the issues
 of why I was feeling anxious.

297
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,040
So how did I try to handle
 the anxiety by myself?

298
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,560
Well, the first thing I did, 

299
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,600
I went out and bought some cookbooks
 and a new kitchen aid mixer.

300
00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:35,040
And now I laugh to myself because I became
 a very anxious but good cook.

301
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,120
So anyway, I knew I had to talk
 to a professional person.

302
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,160
And the eepy counselor was incredibly easy
 and nonjudgmental.

303
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,200
It was a really good experience. 

304
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,200
And it brings me to my next question.

305
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,200
Well, it's actually a two part question. 

306
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,880
First, what are the trends in H.R.?

307
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,200
And second, how important is technology

308
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,400
and digitization
 to the future of the H.R. function?

309
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,600
To go to the first part of your question,
 the big trends at the moment

310
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:11,920
for child really probably around
 future of work and digitization

311
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,280
and, you know, the future
 of what questions really potentially

312
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:20,440
being pushed forward and driven
 more and more by Covid and the pandemic.

313
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,560
And that encapsulates
 a whole heap of of work around

314
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,800
what sort of work people are doing,
 where they're doing, how they're doing it.

315
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:34,120
You know, whether it's in offices
 or schools or campuses working from home

316
00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:37,480
or if it's a hybrid model,
 if they're in an office,

317
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,560
what sort of work do they do there
 versus the work they do at home,

318
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,160
all those sorts of things,
 which is interesting.

319
00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,920
And, you know, I don't think that, again,
 there's no right or wrong or one

320
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:48,480
answer to that, because every 

321
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,040
organization, every industry
 is so different and so unique

322
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,120
and at a different stage
 within their strategy and lifecycle.

323
00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,920
And then the second
 part, digitization is probably,

324
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:06,800
you know, a whole host of like all roles,
 a whole host of processes

325
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:12,400
that sit behind a child
 that can be digitized and sort of free up

326
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:17,200
resources so that they can be more focused
 and more outwardly focused,

327
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,120
I guess so working with the business
 being available for people.

328
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:26,400
So there's a big focus in digitizing
 those sort of processes at the moment.

329
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,320
And again, different
 for every organization.

330
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:34,160
You know, for us, it kept on where
 a small team we've probably done

331
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:41,240
some quite constructive and economical
 digitization, if that makes sense.

332
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:47,520
So using basic things like workflows
 in word documents and DocuSign

333
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,880
and all those sorts of things to help
 sort of get rid of the busy

334
00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,760
paperwork and the press up
 to focus more on

335
00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:59,560
what's in what's most important,
 which is of our students and staff.

336
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,240
So they're the two key things
 from a Day-To-Day perspective.

337
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,560
Well, you know, I think it's so broad.

338
00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:09,520
You can be a generalist. 

339
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,920
And that's tended to be my career
 as a generalist in nature,

340
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:17,480
as my interest in being a journalist
 was really working with the business.

341
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,560
So it's always businesses
 and people that I find interesting.

342
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:27,080
Or you could be a specialist and,
 you know, focus on health and safety

343
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:31,560
or recruitment, learning and development,
 employer relations.

344
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,200
So it's you know, it's interesting. 

345
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,680
I think it's interesting.
 I've been doing it for a long time

346
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,840
and I've worked in
 lots of different industries.

347
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,280
And to be honest, I find that
 exciting as well as, you know, working in

348
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,480
education versus financial services

349
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,520
or, you know, product manufacturing.

350
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,160
I've worked in all of those
 and in health care.

351
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,720
And at the core of them,
 they're all different. 

352
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,600
There's different elements to what
 you have to do in your role day to day.

353
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,280
But at the at the core is always people.

354
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,680
And it's always how,
 you know, how everyone works, works

355
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,600
well together, works effectively together
 to get the outcomes

356
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,000
that the business needs to get,
 whether it be, as we said, health care,

357
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,800
education outcomes or financial services
 type of outcomes.

358
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,600
That was actually going to be
 my next question, because, Andy,

359
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:24,200
I looked at your LinkedIn profile
 before the interview.

360
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,800
I was I was excited and decided to,
 you know, see a bit more about you.

361
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:34,280
And it's true. You've you've been
 in strategic and leadership roles in H.R.

362
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,640
for a while, but but jumped around
 quite a bit between the industries.

363
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,720
And so I was interested to know
 more about that.

364
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,480
I've worked in a few different
 industries myself.

365
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,880
And what is the difference,
 do you think, in education?

366
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,360
How might somebody pick
 which industry is right for them?

367
00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:58,400
For my own for my own personal experience,
 I guess a bit of it's been driven

368
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,000
by where geographically

369
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,920
we're located and my partner as well
 in terms of that.

370
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,880
So you might have seen
 if you've been doing that LinkedIn viewing

371
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,680
that I've been working in Sydney
 and in Melbourne and across my career.

372
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:19,200
So so some of that has been driven
 by the need to change cities

373
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:23,600
based on my partner's role moving and,
 you know, not necessarily

374
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,440
being able to continue with my job
 from one state to the next.

375
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,040
But a lot of the time,
 it's really been about interest

376
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,480
and opportunity and challenge as well.

377
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,520
And I probably come
 to a second part of the question

378
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,640
in a moment, but for me
 personally, everywhere I've worked.

379
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,120
Has been more about 

380
00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:47,320
what does business do,
 what are they trying to achieve?

381
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,840
What are their values, you know,
 how do they work

382
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:56,520
and where I can see that, I can,
 I guess, add value in that aspect .

383
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,680
So it's that's helped me,

384
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,160
I guess, in terms of changing
 changing industries

385
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,640
and not necessarily
 being the expert in that industry.

386
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,440
And, you know, there's a lot of people
 that are expert H.R.

387
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,720
experts within their own industry. 

388
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:17,880
For me, that joy of understanding,
 you know, how when I work Dulux,

389
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:23,480
for instance, how the product is made,
 you know, seeing it in a factory.

390
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,680
Understanding that sort of supply
 chain, then the value

391
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,680
chain into sales and marketing,
 that really interests me.

392
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,680
And then obviously the human elements
 of that where people fit into all of that.

393
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,320
And what value to humans
 create to that process.

394
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,040
And same with education. 

395
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:45,080
I mean, Kaplan, I had I'll admit
 I hadn't really in the past

396
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,680
ever thought about working
 in the education space, but I was really

397
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,320
taken with Kaplan and

398
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,200
the different entities
 within all the different businesses,

399
00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,960
within Kaplan and the vast, you know,
 array of educational opportunities that

400
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:05,560
Kaplan provides for all sorts of people ,
 whether it be financial services,

401
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:10,200
people in Kaplan Professional
 or our international students or students

402
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:15,040
looking to grow the English skills
 or even read markka.

403
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,600
You know, as a as a tech company,
 which which is quite unique and different.

404
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:25,800
So Kaplan really spoke to me in that way,
 in that there were

405
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,320
there was so many opportunities
 and education at the end of the day,

406
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,600
that sort of, I guess, our purpose.

407
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,000
You can't argue with that.

408
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,800
Like we're trying to make people
 people's lives better

409
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,680
in whatever sort of educational pursuit
 they're following with us.

410
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,480
And, you know, there's
 probably nothing greater than that, right,

411
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:47,840
making someone's life better.

412
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,920
Second part of that,
 in terms of cheesy industry,

413
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,800
I don't know, I'm probably not
 the best person to ask of that based on by

414
00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:58,840
my experience Curin,
 because I've I have let the opportunities

415
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,000
kind of take me and guide me,
 you know, and grab it.

416
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,760
And I'd have to say
 all of those places I work, there's

417
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,360
lots of great things
 that I take out of all of them.

418
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,760
So I think it's probably particularly
 someone in the start of their career

419
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:18,000
giving, giving wherever they are ago,
 learning the ropes.

420
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,280
And you, I just guess, can generally apply

421
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,640
those things across
 all sorts of industries

422
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:29,840
as just being agile and learning
 about where you are and understanding

423
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:31,080
where you are and understanding 

424
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:35,080
the differences between where you are
 and where you have been. I suppose.

425
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,760
You know what, we
 actually do have quite a few budding hejab

426
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,840
professionals at KB's,
 and some of them are generalists,

427
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,480
a lot of them are specialists,
 as you as you indicated,

428
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,400
especially in recruitment,
 but say so for the generalists.

429
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,920
And if we address those out there who are
 who are starting out their careers,

430
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,560
it's always good
 and inspiring to hear from somebody

431
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,200
who's at a leadership or strategic level.

432
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,640
And sometimes it seems untenable
 even because it's far off.

433
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,520
How would I advance to my career?

434
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,680
How should I grow my career
 to a leadership level?

435
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,560
It is true. You know, I look back
 and I think it's gone pretty quickly.

436
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,480
I have to admit,
 when I think my first sort of roles

437
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:26,440
within a very administrative,
 you know, doing employment

438
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,600
contracts, organizing interviews,
 all those sorts of things.

439
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:36,160
I suppose the world has changed
 quite a bit in the last 20 years for me.

440
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:41,120
But I think my advice on
 that would be, again, to

441
00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:45,480
to get in, learn and understand

442
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:50,000
the sort of the basics, I guess, of nature
 and how they can be applied.

443
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,160
But really, more importantly,
 if you do want to grow into

444
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,600
leadership role and more strategic
 rather than sort of tactical

445
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,960
HL work is really try and understand
 the business you're in

446
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:06,120
and how you can help drive that business
 strategy or better that business.

447
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:07,240
So it doesn't matter 

448
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,600
what sort of role you're in
 this is whether you're in H.R. or not.

449
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,720
You know, if you're understanding
 what the business needs and challenges

450
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,680
are and you're doing something
 to assist with that.

451
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,920
Then, you know, you've
 got the right attitude and skill set,

452
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,360
I think, to go into
 into a more strategic role.

453
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,960
And then from a leadership
 perspective in general, you know, not

454
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:36,800
not all like, again, in other industries,
 in other professions, not all H.R.

455
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,000
people necessarily want to be leaders.

456
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,680
So some really great people I know

457
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,760
have been really happy
 to stay within their specialization or

458
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,360
work at a nightclub business partner level
 rather than, you know, a nature manager

459
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,720
or a director level,
 because that's where they feel

460
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,560
they can add the most value and that's
 where they're they're comfortable to

461
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,320
to be and to grow. 

462
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,120
And we have really enjoyed
 our conversation with you.

463
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,640
My takeaway message from our conversation
 is that while Covid has changed the way

464
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,960
we connect with each other,
 we are still a compassionate

465
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,160
and kind company towards
 both our students and staff.

466
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,600
So thank you very much
 for your time today, Andy.

467
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,400
Really happy to be part of your story,
 so thanks for asking me.

468
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,600
If you're feeling unwell
 or in need of help, reach

469
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,520
out to anyone in Australia
 can get immediate mental health support

470
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:38,120
by calling the national lifeline
 on 13, 11, 14 and beyond.

471
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,360
Blue has great 24/7 support staff
 and one three hundred

472
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:48,160
twenty two forty six thirty
 six Chaplet employees can contact H.R..

473
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,880
Our Access Free Counseling
 CBIA students have access to free

474
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,520
confidential campus counselors, safety
 and support services such as Sonder.

475
00:29:58,320 --> 00:29:59,680
Reach out to your campus student 

476
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,440
experience team for friendly guidance
 on accessing these services.